Alleged prayer killer gets dose of irony


Yesterday, the case against the mother of poor Madeline Neumann finally got underway, but only 20 minutes in and they had to recess because mom of the year Leilani Neumann required medical care. Let that sink in for a moment. The woman who is charged with killing her daughter because she decided to pray for her instead of getting her medical care, needed medical care in court and got it.

How nice, huh?

I’ve been waiting for this case for some time. I think this could really make shock waves across the nation as there are several states which have laws comparable to Wisconsin’s concerning rejecting medical care on religious grounds. I have no problem with adults making such a choice about their own lives, but that kind of reckless decision can’t be made by a minor nor for a minor.

In Minnesota, the law is somewhat different, requiring parents to provide children with “medically necessary care”, which is why a judge has ordered an x-ray of Danny Hauser’s chest to assess the need for further care to address his lymphoma. At least Danny’s parents aren’t completely nuts, since they do recognize some need for doctors, which is how his condition became known to the court as concerned doctors reported the situation to child protective services. Also, thankfully, his mother has admitted she’d reconsider chemo if Danny’s condition worsened. Unfortunately for Madeline, no medical professional was aware of her condition, and under no circumstances were her parents going to give up on prayer.

Across the nation we’re seeing the effects of going with prayer. Abstinence only sex ed, essentially shutting your eyes and praying kids won’t explore their sexuality, has resulted in skyrocketing teen pregnancies and STDs. Fearful parents using religious exemptions to get out of vaccinating their kids, resulting in a return of such things as polio as well as making their little unvaccinated snowflakes into little Typhoid Marys, endangering both toddlers too young to be vaccinated yet as well as seniors. (There was a recent Law & Order episode on this)

So I think it’s long past the time we drew a line in the sand. People’s prayer claims can be humored when it concerns finding lost keys or even if someone wants to endanger themselves and themselves only, but when it comes to endangering others, especially those in need of protection like children or elderly seniors, that prayer nonsense won’t be tolerated as a substitute for real solutions. Feel free to say a prayer as the needle goes in, though. Knock yourselves out.

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32 Responses to “Alleged prayer killer gets dose of irony”

  1. they had to recess because mom of the year Leilani Neumann required medical care.Why didn’t they just give her a dose of her own medicine? Oh, yeah, maybe it was because secularists usually try to do the right thing.

  2. Medical care isn’t cheap…I promote survival of the fittest when it comes to people going into ultra high levels of debt that will ruin them. If it takes a little lying to the kids, then so be it, perhaps the other kids can make it to college instead.

  3. I’m in total agreement.

  4. Thanks for posting this update which absolutely oozes irony. I hope much more is made of this in the mainstream.

    As far as parents who have opted out of vaccinations, it’s worth pointing out that it’s not just religious stupidity but also a more generalized anti-science stupidity in which we see a lot of “conspiracy-sensitive” folks involved.

    Polio is just one of the more extreme examples, but simple measles and mumps used to kill millions of people. The focal point in the battle is the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccination. This is a public safety issue.

  5. I wrote this post too quickly, Evo. What I meant was parents get to use religious exemption to get out of vaccinating their kids.

    I still think it would have been deliciously snarky if when they called for paramedics, the prosecutor said something like, “wait, why don’t we just hold hands and pray for her instead?”

    You’ve lost me, QF, and I’m eagerly anticipating cl’s other shoe dropping.

  6. Whether a parent seeks medical service for their child or not is entirely the decision of the parent. It doesn’t matter what the reason is, heck it could be an atheist parent and an athiest child for all I care. It’s basically like nature is providing a post-birth abortion, you know, a natural infant and child mortality rate like you see in Africa where they don’t have medical service. Just because people are living in America doesn’t mean they have to live like an American (considerable credit debt).

  7. Ah, so you just see it as a thinning of the herd, a very late term abortion if you will. Well since those who would do such a thing probably have a brood of children, this may be a biological necessity to curb overpopulation.

    Maybe that’s what religion is for, keeping people ignorant enough so that many needlessly die to prevent overpopulation.

    Man, that’s dark.

  8. John Evo you don't understand libertarian viewpoint at all, sorry :/

  9. QF is like a number of atheists who have chosen the libertarian route. Philosophically it makes a certain amount of sense, but it just shows me that there is a place for emotions within the larger framework of rational thinking.

    The problem with the libertarian viewpoint is that society (and all its attendant goodies that we all love) would not have been possible under it. Without a certain sense of “duty to the race” (the human race) we can’t have THIS.

    And, in fact, QFs stance would require him to stand in opposition to my previous comment. If parents don’t want to vaccinate, fuck it. It’s their choice. The fact that their children might die be damned. The fact that in dying they might infect 5 others be damned. Personal liberty over all, at all times, right Q?

  10. I should say taxation and regulation both prevent progress in all of those avenues. The mind of a capitalist is for the people whom demand it should be the ones whom pay for it and the businesses that offer it should be the ones to risk the losses due to high rates or liberally offering services to those with bad credit.

  11. “Personal liberty over all, at all times…”

    -John Evo

  12. Point?

  13. How is medical treatment ever going to come down in price unless people choose liberty or death? If people are forced to pay for medical treatment (either by way of taxation or law’s fingers on their wallets), then what is the incentive for the medical companies to lower their prices? I, personally, would like to see some highly competitive business happening between medical companies and that won’t work if they’re in bed with the government and the law. I am for technological innovation and risk taking and I think that is exactly what the government despises, it makes people less dependent on the government which already is too big of an organization….I’m not cold for thinking ideologically here, I think the government needs to back down and go libertarian so that business and technological progress can be made (or else the recession and inflation will only get worse).

  14. The dark horse here is expensive monopolistic government controlled medical treatment, not liberty and freedom of consumer choice.

  15. That’s an interesting comment. I would think you might say, “John Evo, the point you made about libertarianism forcing him to reject mandatory vaccinations is incorrect”. Or, “you are wrong, we could still have exactly the same things in this society with libertarianism”. But, no, you are a mind reader and know that I “don’t understand the libertarian viewpoint at all”.

    Since I really didn’t say much about it, I don’t know how you get to that position. But, OK, I’ll bite. Enlighten me. Specifically, since they relate to the points I raised:

    Can a libertarian support mandatory vaccinations for all citizens? And, if so, how does this position play against Q’s claim that all parents should be able to take their kids to the doctor, or not, as they choose? Are libertarians willing to be taxed at high enough rates as to provide for mass transit, nuclear power plants, interstate highways, maintenence of local, state and national parks, law enforcement, fire departments, national medical facilities, social security and medicare?

    Again, maybe you read me right and I need to be enlightened. I’ll read every word of what you have to say.

  16. Evo: Are libertarians willing to be taxed at high enough rates as to provide for mass transit, nuclear power plants, interstate highways, maintenence of local, state and national parks, law enforcement, fire departments, national medical facilities, social security and medicare?.

    QF: I believe these things should be made obselete or at least updated by technology and business. Taxation prevents progress in all of these avenues.

  17. QF – I know you do. And you have made very clear that you are a libertarian. I am not questioning you on your beliefs, nor am I criticizing them (at least not at this time).

    At this point I think we can all agree that I’m just trying to ascertain if MaikU thinks YOU don’t know a thing about libertarianism! Think of me as your temporary bulldog, buddy. I won’t let him rip you down.

  18. Hey, I’m stating my ideology, sort of a hypothesis that I buy into. I’ll leave it to objective fact to prove or modify my statements here (assuming China doesn’t decide to drop the A-bomb or own us first, for not paying them back).

  19. QF is just making a lot of assertions. That’s what he does. It’s sort of a rambling stream of consciousness. That’s what he means when he says, “Hey, I’m stating my ideology…” His mind is his, not strict Libertarian. He’s just calling it Libertarian.

    Actually, it’s all hip and trendy to be Libertarian, so a lot of people say they are, but then you ask for opinions on specific things, then…. well, it gets interesting. I especially like the Libertarians in the Midwest who think government should be denying equal rights, abortion, and anything else thet ain’t Christin.

  20. I also like the libertarians who will go nuts if you try to take away their social security or complain when the roads need to be repaved. But then again, I’m clueless about what it means to be a libertarian so I should shut up.

  21. It is equally as authoritative for the state to force women to have an abortion as it is for the state to force women to not have an abortion. Obama takes advantage of the illusion of the freedom of choice when in fact he is just going to switch the status quo of choice from the individual to the government’s control. His pro-choice, in effect, is for the government to decide who gets to give birth and who needs to have an abortion. That’s not libertarian.

  22. Bullshit

  23. Quantum Flux “I promote survival of the fittest when it comes to people going into ultra high levels of debt that will ruin them.”Have you considered socialized healthcare? That way, you get to wait in line, rather than remortgage the house (waiting in line for several years for a replacement hip is better than staying doped up for your remaining days because you can’t afford it).

    “Whether a parent seeks medical service for their child or not is entirely the decision of the parent.”Your liberty ends where your child’s nose begins, especially when that nose is bleeding.

    “Hey, I’m stating my ideology, sort of a hypothesis that I buy into.”Feel free to test that hypothesis the hell away from me.

    “It is equally as authoritative for the state to force women to have an abortion as it is for the state to force women to not have an abortion.”The State is forcing women to get abortions? Does it have some coupons that are about to expire or something?

    John Evo “QF is like a number of atheists who have chosen the libertarian route.”*The sociopathic ones? (“I got mine. Fuck them. I only support the bits of the social contract that I require in my present situation. Moo ha-ha!”)
    *The petit riche ones who live in a Rand fantasy where the rest of the world is keeping them down? (“Ooo! If only society played by my rules! Then I would show them. I would show them all! Moo ha-ha!”)

  24. I saw that Law & Order– episode. The show made a good point of pointing out the danger. Namely, other kids may not be as strong as yours and may die of the disease.

  25. Bullshit, Philly!? As in the Communist Chinese aren’t already forcing women to have abortions in their own country and that’s where our congress is getting its gameplan (and our money) from? Do you think the Chinese don’t have any say in our future policies? I think the opposite, that they do have a lot of say in our socialist policies, they practically own most of the USA already via IOU debt and business production already.

  26. Modusoperandi said…
    “Have you considered socialized healthcare? That way, you get to wait in line, rather than remortgage the house (waiting in line for several years for a replacement hip is better than staying doped up for your remaining days because you can’t afford it).”

    QF: Have considered healthcare times 300 million being taken out of the taxes of 0.9 times 300 million with 0.05 times 300 million getting taxed at a much higher percentage (whom will thereby have to thereby lay off more employees which hurts business so that everybody in the country can be administered their annual STD checkups during a physical or to pay for state forced abortions of the 0.1 times 300 million)?

  27. One last thing:

    In my defense of not being a sociopath….I hope I’m fucking wrong.

  28. The anti vacination Lobby in Australia have now gone from homeopathic vaccinations to saying that Cancer is better than treatment with chemo or radiotherapy.

  29. A lot of crazy out there.

  30. The solution to the Chinese labor party is to side with the Japanese robotics industry, IMO.

  31. LOL!

  32. QF “Have considered healthcare…”Have you considered how many of those lost jobs are in advertising, insurance and government lobbying? Have you considered that six bucks plus for a hospital tylenol is insane? Have you considered that a disturbing percentage of mothers-to-be first see the doctor when they’re giving birth? Have you considered that without socialized medicine lots of people end up using the limited care of the ER as a doctor, which is the most expensive and least effect way? Have you considered than an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Have you considered that no matter how you pay for it, you do pay for it?

    “The solution to the Chinese labor party is to side with the Japanese robotics industry, IMO.”I’d go with China. China has dragons. There isn’t a whole lot of difference between a parade and a rally.

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